new Members' Forum Category -Gretsch floor tom issue

Brad, the only thing that you didn't mention that could be the problem is properly tuning the drum. Gretsch are sometimes hard to tune , even if tuning is your forte, because sometimes the shells can be a bit oversized and the heads not fitting well even if you re-cut the bearing edges. I would see if you can get a hold of one of those good tuning gauges and see what it sounds like when tuned using the gauge. Also the best way to get an idea of the problem is to exchange parts, try different type and brand head, try a triple flange hoop etc, try mounting it with a R.I.M.S.mount ,anything to eliminate what it's not. If you exhaust every combination then it just could be the shell, Ting

Thanks, Ting. I am very conscientious re: tuning, and I have tried numerous head combinations as well as hoops. But maybe the shell/ head is the critical piece. I know there are heads intended for vintage drums, although I am not sure about the age of this particular drum. I tend to favor the thinnest head available, diplomat or G1 7.5 mil.

I have not tried calf yet. Hmm.

I'll keep the post updated. I can't be the only one!!

Brad

Brad, Since the late 1960's, and having worked with new, old and "vintage" drums, I've found lots of discrepancies in size, shape and what to expect from each drum. After playing on most of the well known American drum brands I bought my first Gretsch round badge set a few years ago. It is a set of mostly singles that a guy had gathered together and wrapped to have a 6 piece matching set. The drums were poorly wrapped when I got them and that led me to getting them professionally re-wrapped; the bearing edges were left as they were and that isn't necessarily a critical factor. The two rack toms are on RIMS and the two floor toms are suspended also. I used heads with an oversized collar for older vintage drums and still have trouble getting a low end deep tone from the toms, by varying degrees per drum. I've worked with more "modern" Gretsch drums and haven't had the same trouble tuning in the deeper range. My round badge drums sound great, even with the difficulty in getting the range of tone that I'd have hoped for. In my experience most drums seem to each have it's own sweet spot where the drum voices its most vibrant and true tone. Once you find that spot on a drum the drum will reveal its characteristic voice and you'll find the range best suited for it. Ting's reply is sound advice; and then again the shell may be "dead". Have you undressed the drum and knocked on the bare shell? Not that this is a definitive answer in and of itself, but if the shell has a flat and non-resonant sound by itself then that is something that will point to what to expect with both heads on and tightened (tight or loose), but importantly - in tune with each other and with the shell. Post an update with what you find out over time. Best of luck with your project, Kevin C.

Thanks everyone. I intend to: 1. remove the legs and brackets and see what happens when I suspend the drum. If that doesn't change anything... 2. Complete strip down and bang on the shell to see if there is any life there. 3. Once again, check heads for fit, etc. I have tried all combinations of tuning, bottom tighter than the top, vice versa, and higher to lower tuning. Not once have I found a sweet spot, just a tuning that is less terrible than others.

I did see a request for photos of the inside of the drum, so I'll try to post those as well. Since I bought the drum as is with the shell and legs only, I wonder if the previous owner had similar issues? I'll also research a bit more in the Gretsch Drum book by Chet Falzerano. Stay tuned.

Brad

Ok here's the final verdict.... Dead shell. I removed all hardware, supported the drum with my left index finder, made a fist with the right, and hit all around the shell with the fleshy part of my right hand. Little discrepancies but nothing alarming with a fairly strong resonance at the pitch of E. Redressed the shell and headed to Pro Drum in Hollywood. We tried every combination of heads, rims , etc, and it is just dead. Compared it to a new Broadkaster on the floor at Pro Drum and it was just not even close. Really strange in that there doesn't appear to be any red flags. Shell is level, edges fine, new heads, different hoops, suspended without legs, just nothing changes. Interestingly, it sounds better, not great, when I set up my 16 inch floor tom right next to it. The 16 amplifies the resonance in a similar fashion to tympani that are unmuffled.

Hi Brad - Interesting, and not so unusual, although rare. Some drums just don't have the voice you'd think they should have.

God bless you during this strange and dark time in history

Drum on!

Kevin Coggins

Brad,

On square floor toms(14x14, 16x16, etc.) it’s been my experience that tuning them, especially Gretsch floor toms for some reason, require a much more substantial batter head. I know you dig thin heads but have you tried a Remo Emperor classic fit head? Tuned so that the resonant head is ever so slightly tuned higher than the batter.

Hope you get it resolved.

Thanks, Lee. I happen to have a new Emperor, so I will give it a shot. The Gretsch set is in bags now as I have pulled my mid 60's Sonor teardrop out, and I'll have to say, I had forgotten how good these drums are. 5 piece with 12, 13 ,16 , 22 and matching 5 x14 wood snare. I am looking for a 14 inch floor tom in any finish if anyone has seen one. I can't seem to

find one anywhere!

Thanks

Hope I'm not too late to the party?

If I am, I do apologize, but maybe these tips might help someone else?

After reading all the stuff that has been done to the shell and tried already, I figured Brad is a guy who doesn't mind working to get what he wants and also doesn't mind getting his hands dirty, So I thought of a few things that could be done with a wood shell, just for the hell of it, before running out to buy a different drum.

Knowing a little bit about wood basics, and some brands of drum-shells, it dawned on me,

Porous wood absorbs sound, right?

So, any shell or speaker cabinet made form porous wood would of course sound very "dead", meanwhile Dense wood reflects sound, making the sound-waves "jump" off more efficiently.

Even if it "feels" smooth to the touch, your shells interior may be too "porous" and "killing" it's sound/tone?

You could always try lightly sanding the inside of the shell with something like a 220-400 grit paper just to help close up any "pores" that are probably "sucking up" it's sound.

Sanding the grain closed should change it's tone and will also slightly improve it's sustain, since the sound-waves would would no longer be absorbed anymore and are now reflecting off the wood.

And if that doesn't help, you could always try slapping a thin layer or two or three of a clear urethane on the inside of the shell to help "seal" the wood up, which would change the shell's tone, or maybe try a thin maple, oak or walnut veneer (different woods=different absorption/sounds/tones/resonance) or some synthetic type of thin layering on the inside of the shell to get it to liven up or to just sound different.

I also wonder if using a good bit of an oil meant for wood cleaning or treatment, such as a lemon oil, like a "Murphy's" product, all over the inside of the shell would make a difference?

Soak it well, the moisture will lift/raise the grain up, than let it dry out for a few days, it will shrink back down a bit, but will be rougher textured than it originally was and become very porous, but than you can just lightly sand the inside to get it nice and smooth and "close" the grain and in the end that inner layer would also be slightly thinner, which would give a very different and more lively sound.

Thinner and more dense wood always throws sound off far better than thicker and porous.

Was just a thought from a woodworkers perspective.

Good Luck!

\m/DJ\m/

Thanks for those ideas.....I hadn't thought about trying anything like that.

Still have the drum and I haven't played it for awhile. One or 2 more heads to try, and then I'll run my hands over the silver sealer and compare to my other Gretsch drums that sound fantastic. Hopefully, and as you suspect, there may be a noticeable difference in what each feels like on the inside. I'll post here for sure if I get anywhere, and thanks for suggestions.